Lights Action Impact - recorded live at the 2025 Spada Conference

"LIGHTS, ACTION, IMPACT" -  A presentation and discussion of the high-level takeouts from recently completed research into the economic and cultural value of the screen production  sector in New Zealand. This Mahi Tahi initiative from NZ On Air, NZ Film Commission and Te Māngai Pāho demonstrates how impactful our cultural storytelling really is, both at home and globally.

View full report on the three funders websites, or HERE: 
https://temngaipho.cmail19.com/t/t-l-wljmjt-tttrnklhk-r/

www.spada.co.nz

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Transcript

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The ‘Lights, Action, Impact’ presentation From NZ On Air, Te Māngai Pāho and the New Zealand Film Commission was recorded live during the 2025 Spada Conference. Kei aku iti Kei aku rahi Whakatamarahi ki te rangi Kei aku whakataetei ki te whenua Kei ngā mana whenua o tēnei rohe Tēnei te mihi. Ki ngā kaiwhakahaere ō tēnei huihuinga Spada Ki ā mātou kairangahau New Zealand Institute of Economic Research Mei kore ake koutou i whakatutuki ai a tēnei wawata Te wāhi o te rāngai pāpaho ki te me te ahurea o Aotearoa. Tēnei te mihi. Tēnei mātou ko Irirangi te Motu ko Te Māngai Pāho ko Te Tumu Whakaata Taonga E mihi atu nei ki a koutou. E te rāngai pāpaho E pae mai nei Otirā huri noa i tō tātou whare Ko Ruiha Anderson tōku ingoa Ko au Te Hautū Te Herenga ki Te Māngai Pāho I lead in Data and Reporting at Te Māngai Pāho Mahi Tahi rangahau and I'll hand it over to my colleague, Tayla Hancock, who will speak to the economic impact research component of this mahi. Kia ora koutou My name is Tayla Hancock. I'm Senior Advisor, Policy and Performance at Te Tumu Whakaata Taonga the New Zealand Film Commission. So this year, the New Zealand Film Commission New Zealand On Air and Te Māngai Pāho commissioned NZIER and Verian to analyse the role of screen production and shaping New Zealand's economy and culture. So this work forms part of Mahi Tahi, which is a collaborative effort between the three agencies to support and strengthen the screen sector in Aotearoa and as a piece of research that we plan on conducting every two years. So ahead of publication of the report today, we are going to share some high level findings from the research. And then we will follow, this with the conversation with NZ On Air CEO Cam Harland, where he will talk about the three agencies collaborative response to the findings. So the research covers three areas. It looks at economic activity and New Zealand screen production, and it looks at the cultural impact of New Zealand screen production, and also how our screen content influences global perceptions of Aotearoa. So for context, we have defined screen production in this research as content made for cinematic release, television broadcast, in streaming or on demand platforms. It doesn't include gaming. So I will start by talking to some of the economic findings, which was conducted by NZIER. So the economic analysis uses a market value based approach drawing on published statistics and industry data in a wide range of secondary data sources. The scope of the economic analysis focuses on four key areas. So it looks at GDP, which is the total economic contribution to national output. It looks at labor market trends. So this includes employment levels, wage structures and workforce dynamics, private investment including capital flows and investment activity. And it also looks at export earnings and contribution to tourism. So what this approach does is it allows us to understand not just the direct financial impact of the industry, but the much broader role that the industry plays in New Zealand's economy. So let's start with looking at GDP. I just want to note that GDP measures capture, not it's important to note that GDP measures capture only direct value added. So they do not reflect wider spillover effects into other industries such as tourism, hospitality or technology. And that's why it's important that we do this much broader economic analysis. So for the year ending March 2025, the screen industry contributed an estimated 1.1 billion to New Zealand's GDP and 3 billion and output. This is quite modest, at around 0.3% of the national total. However, compared with other creative sectors, screen production is much more export oriented and it plays a key role in New Zealand's international brand. The sector's contribution is also really labor intensive, so with around 5000 wage employees and many more contractors sustaining an output over 1 billion, this is a relatively high value added per worker compared with other service sectors. Now, we are aware that the, last financial year was a peak year, which was driven by major international productions and favorable global conditions. And since then, the sector has hit a downturn. We know that production volumes have contracted, international investment has slowed, and many screen sector businesses are facing significant challenges. So because of this, these findings might feel a little bit out of step with what many are experiencing in the sector at the moment. So given this, this data should be interpreted not as a static snapshot, but as part of a much longer term story of fluctuation, resilience and strategic opportunity. So looking at the graph, we can say there's a clear dip and output when Covid hit. As we all know, production slowed dramatically and output. So during this time but what really stands out as the recovery. So the industry bounced back strongly and it now exceeds pre-pandemic levels. So these changes that I'm talking about show just how volatile the screen production can be with boom years followed by busts shaped by global cycles and policy settings. But volatility in GDP isn't a weakness. It reflects global production cycles. Peaks occur when major international projects are underway. Troughs happen during levels or disruptions like the pandemic. So this research is really vital, because understanding these cycles can help us plan strategically so we can leverage the peaks and build resilience during the troughs. Okay. Turning to workforce. So the screen industry operates under a duel labor model. And the last financial year we had almost 20,000 people, around 8000 employees and almost 19,000 contractors. So this structure gives us flexibility and helps us respond quickly to project based work. But it also means that income and career progression can be unpredictable. Since 2012, employment has remained stable at around 8000 people, providing a consistent core of wage work. Once again, there was obviously a noticeable decline, during Covid where workforce went down to about 6800 employees, but this has recovered in the following years. The research shows us that permanent employment is more common in broadcasting and movie exhibition, while the project based nature of production and post-production tends to favor towards contracting arrangements. Now, while the number of employees has remained relatively stable over the longer term, the number of businesses has risen steadily. So what this suggests is that many established businesses have faced challenges and scaling up, largely due to an unpredictable market, fluctuating project cycles and funding constraints. At the same time, the industry has enabled the emergence of new micro and small scale businesses, which can respond more flexibly to shifts in demand in the short term nature of screen production, contracts. So the research also looked at income levels. So over recent years, wage staff have consistently earned more on average than self-employed workers. And this reflects the stability and higher pay that come with salaried roles. So this graph here shows trends and average earnings across the industry. We can say that post-production services and other motion picture activities have the highest and fastest growing earnings. Another area of strong growth is motion picture and video distribution, which actually overtook free to air broadcasting since 2016. And this shift matches changes in how audiences watch content with streaming and digital platforms, driving demand for distribution expertise. By contrast, motion picture production and exhibition remain lower, earning segments with gradual that steady increases over time. So when it comes to, this workforce data, we are going to have access to much more information about cast and crew numbers and earnings representation and demographic makeup. With the introduction of the Everyone Project Aotearoa, which is another Mahi Tahi initiative that we will be launching in January next year, and this tool is going to give us the visibility that we need to track workforce trends much more accurately as we continue to conduct this research. So turning to investment, the sector continued continues to attract significant public and private investment, driving economic activity and growth. However, one of the limitations of this research, is that the available data doesn't capture the full extent of private investment. And this is because some production spending and infrastructure investment remains confidential or unreported. But our New Zealand's screen production rebate data shows that qualifying New Zealand production expenditure for international productions in the last financial year was 647 million. Live action productions make up the most make up most of the share of this expenditure, and by contrast, post digital and visual effects projects our PDV projects, while remain smaller in scale, continue to provide steady economic value, especially through employment and specialized services. Another thing that came through our NZSPR data, in relation to PDV applications, is that the number of these applications have generally trended upwards over time. But in the last financial year, we actually saw quite a decrease. And while some fluctuation is expected, this decline may signal emerging challenges for the PDV field and this is possibly due to growing international competition. So this breakdown highlights not only the scale of international investment flowing into New Zealand, but also the different ways that live action and PDV productions stimulate economic activity. Both segments are vital. Live action productions bring large scale spending and visibility, while PDV work supports ongoing employment and capability development and specialized areas. So I am now going to hand over to Allanah, who is going to talk about what this means for local production investment. Tēna koutou katoa ko Allanah Kalafatelis taku ingoa Kei Tumuaki Whakawhiti Kōrero me te Rangahau ke Irirangi Te Motu. Communications and Research at New Zealand on Air and part of the Mahi Tahi trio. So, let's start by looking at, the change of the rebate settings in 2023 and what that did. And this is obviously in the New Zealand on Air context. So pre 2023 NZ On Air was funding 2 to 3 large scale dramas a year. And and that was to a tune to the tune of 6 or $7 million each and to as sort of quantum of about 94% of the total budget. Then we see the ability to stretch the taxpayer dollars further kick in when the rebate changes came in. So since 2023 /24 New Zealand ON Air’s been able to support ten large scale dramas with around $2.4 million per project. But the really exciting bit about that is that each of those projects brought in international dollars. And so that was to the tune of $40 million in non-government funding. So that's a really lovely multiplier effect. So this data is just one example of the way that local funding investment both underpins the sector by providing ongoing work, but also brings that substantial additional investment, really important for the government to know that their money is doing that. And this isn't just NZ on Air, it's a Mahi Tahi effort. New Zealand on Air New Zealand Film Commission and Te Mānga Pāho collectively backing local stories and talents, to the tune of around$300 million plus investments. And it ties in perfectly to the conference theme - Love Local Go Global. Investing in local content isn't just cultural, it's economic. As we've seen. And it's about building a future where New Zealand stories thrive, both globally and locally. And importantly, this also delivers to the government's new Amplify Strategy. So let's have a look at the impact, of the of the trade of New Zealand screen content services. So obviously this also plays an important role. Imports of screen content have risen steadily. That's that nice sharp line rising up. But, they've overtaken exports in 2023. And so we've seen quite a drop off there. So exports are remaining more volatile and, closely tied to the international production cycles, as Tayla has already talked about. You know, consumer demand dynamics, screen production volatility, global competition for incentives, and a mobile labor force are all driving, industry imports and exports. So both sides of the equation, and this highlights the opportunities and challenges facing the screen industry. You know, imports have grown steadily underlining the dominance of international content and the local market, something we'd like to change. And exports have been more volatile. So but there's significant potential there for foreign earnings, as we've seen with that peak back in 2022, 23. And, you know, we have to acknowledge that we're we're exposed to international competition and shifting consumer preferences. The takeaway is we need strategies that grow export capability and ensure New Zealand content remains visible. And competitive globally and domestically. So let's have a look at the streaming lead change and the impact it's having. So the rise of streaming platforms is reshaping how New Zealand screen content is financed, produced and consumed. And we've seen that, really clearly in all of the way of the audiences research over the last 11 years. While global services expand market rate, they also challenge the viability of traditional distribution and exhibition and exhibition channels. So policy needs to adapt to ensure New Zealand retains both cultural visibility and economic value. In this shifting environment. So the report discusses some key considerations in the space, to allow New Zealand to retain both cultural visibility and economic value and the environment. The first consideration is encouraging streaming platforms to commission or and acquire New Zealand content, so that local stories can reach global audiences supporting co-productions also. And you saw before that change allowing domestic productions to qualify for the screen production rebate alongside NZ On Air funding has shifted the dial. There's a need to invest in marketing and digital promotion, so that New Zealand audiences are aware of what's available in New Zealand. And many of you will know that New Zealand on Air is investing in this space now actively, to try to sort of fill the gap. We also need to help New Zealand content to stand out in the crowded international streaming catalogs. So it needs to be visible and promoted on the likes of Netflix and Amazon, etc.. And finally, there's a need to support innovation and cinema to sustain local audience engagement with film. So it's a really competitive environment. And here in New Zealand, the report suggests there must also be a focus on industry performance. And that includes building scale and businesses so that they can capture efficiencies, and invest in innovation, strengthening skills and training pathways and ensuring local content, especially Māori content, is visible in the global marketplace. And we'll hear a bit more about that from Ruiha shortly. Just another look. Also, this ties back to, what Tayla was talking about with the GDP, but this is specifically the impact on tourism that the screen sector has. Tourism is a major part of the New Zealand economy. It's worth $17 billion and value added in the year to March 2024, and it's about 4.4% of GDP now. Screen content plays a big role in putting our country and scenery on the world stage. 15.9% of international visitors said that screen content influenced their decision to come here. Which translates to about $2.7 billion in tourism spend. So let's just add that neatly to that GDP figure shall we? I don't know if it's how it works, but anyway, so that's a huge contribution from the screen industry to tourism. And we're just going to unpack that a little bit further. So, this graphic is from ‘Factors in deciding to visit New Zealand’. The MBIE international visitor survey June quarter 2025. And up the top you can see the two little pink bits, are part of the 15.9% figure so that it's the combination of movies filmed in New Zealand, TV shows featuring New Zealand. And then we come down a little way to The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings still having impact, however many decades later. But this is starting to wane is audiences, you know, become less the younger audiences become less familiar with that content. But let's not ignore right down the very bottom that 43% line, 43.1% who said they they came to New Zealand because of the landscapes and scenery? How did they know about the landscapes and scenery? We asked. They saw it. In screen content more than likely. So I think we can claim that one to. So this shows why ongoing local and international productions are vital for keeping New Zealand visible globally. Screen driven tourism isn't just about nostalgia, it's about sustaining Aotearoa’s Global profile. Every time our landscapes and culture appear on screen, it reinforces New Zealand as a destination. Investing in local content is not just cultural, it's economic. And it supports jobs, tourism and our international brand #lovelocal#goglobal With celebrating the stories that connect people here and attract visitors from around the world. So that brings us to some of the most powerful findings of this research, which is the cultural impact. And how does New Zealand content shape who we are and how the world sees us? Ruiha - Kia ora Allanah o te rā kia ora ano tatou This research goes to the heart of why our stories matter. They shape who we are and how the world sees us. The cultural impact study led by Verian, combined quantitative and qualitative research conducted here in Aotearoa and across five other countries are being Australia, France, the UK, the US and India. We surveyed nearly 1200 New Zealanders and over 500 international participants alongside a online qualitative forum. The cultural research explored four key areas - First, how local screen content contributes to identity and belonging for New Zealanders. Second, how we see ourselves and our communities reflected on screen. Third, the role that Māori culture plays in shaping perceptions of Aotearoa. And finally how local screen content influences international perceptions of US internationally. The findings are clear. Our natural environment, our values and Māori culture resonate strongly with global audiences. Crucially, these elements are what make our stories distinctive and authentic, and the results are compelling. Nearly eight in ten international viewers say New Zealand's screen content sparks curiosity about our country, and 72% considered visiting as a result. Turning to Aotearoa now here at home, local content is foundational to identity and belonging. 73% of New Zealanders agree that New Zealand-made content shapes national identity, with very few disagreeing. Belonging emerged as the strongest driver of cultural impact. Simply put, when people see themselves reflected on screen, it builds pride, connection and optimism for the future. As one young participant aptly stated, local content plays a massive part in showing who we are. It helps define our culture, showcase our diversity and shapes how Kiwis and the world sees New Zealand. Importantly, those most likely to feel this sense of belonging include Māori, Pasifika, speakers of te reo Māori and those living in intergenerational households. As one participant reflected, local content shapes our national identity by showing what makes New Zealand celebrated, we can take pride in our landscapes, values and cultural diversity. This brings us to a crucial finding of the research. Māori content is central to New Zealand's screen identity. It is not an add-on. Māori storytelling It plays a defining role in shaping who we are and how the world sees us. Māori screen content is integral to cultural impact and our international reputation. The key qualitative insights highlight five distinctive benefits. First, it strengthens language revitalization and cultural literacy. Second, it counters stereotypes and and builds bridges between communities. Third, it brings untold narratives forward, shining a light on our history and challenges. For fourth, it evokes pride and strengthens identity for both Māori and non-Māori. In fact, 74% of New Zealanders agree it is an important part of our national identity. And finally, it builds understanding and cohesion for all New Zealanders. One participant shared - Showing Māori perspectives on historical events is really important to ensure that both sides of the story are told. It helps us think critically about our history and understand its impact on society and internationally. This impact is profound. Māori storytelling is recognized as a distinctive strength. 87% of international viewers say Māori stories help them value indigenous storytelling more broadly. Furthermore, 83% agree it gives New Zealand a distinctive voice in global film and television. And 84% agree it plays an important part in how New Zealand is perceived internationally. Now my final slide, finally, screen content plays a pivotal role in reflecting communities that have often felt underrepresented. While progress has been made and showcasing Māori, Pasifika and broader Kiwi experiences, gaps still remain. Only about a third of disabled communities feel their experiences are reflected equally. Asian communities say there is not enough space for their stories and for our Lgbtqia+ community. It's just 34% agree that their experiences are reflected. As one participant put it, local content helps define our culture and showcase our diversity, and that very authenticity is what draws people in. Ultimately, when people see themselves reflected on on screen, it fosters belonging, deepens understanding, and strengthens social cohesion. So, to summarize, local content is more than mere entertainment, and these insights underscore the importance of continued investment and local screen production as a means of both economic development and cultural expression. Findings from all phases of the research show that New Zealand and Māori screen content play an important role in shaping national identity, supporting belonging and inclusion, and contributing to social connection and international engagement. And on that note, I'll I'll wrap it up here. The research will be published in the coming weeks and will be available across all three agencies websites. And I'll now hand it over to Cam and Irene to talk about what this all means and how the Mahi Tahi agencies plan to respond. Kia ora tatou. Thanks. Presenting team. That was really great. Cam - there’s some pretty amazing data there. Maybe not anything like really new, but just great to have it all presented like and at our fingertips for use when we're lobbying, etc.. You're welcome. Thank you. Do you have any just general comments off the back of it to get us going? Yeah. I mean, I think the starting point is what a what a fantastic job. A lot of the things I thought I was going to have to say up here have already been conveyed in the presentation, which is brilliant. So, thanks, team. I think this is a piece of research that's pretty unique. I don't know that there's any other territory out there that's combined a piece of economic, research with a cultural piece of research and not only a cultural piece of research, but a piece of research that's asking for New Zealanders views of screen content and international audiences views of our screen content as well. So it's a really, excuse me, it's a really I think it's a really, really thorough piece of work. As Tayla said at the start, we do want to do it on a fairly regular basis. I think the one thing, if Annie was here, I think the one thing she would say was a concern she had about the fact that it's from an economic point of view, probably conveying a more positive sense of what's happening in the sector than is what's happening right now. And that is writ large in the research. So I think we're making it clear that a lot of the data that we're drawing on is, is from the past. Right? So, so the economic information that we're pulling on is, rebate, rebates being paid, which obviously is paid at the end of production activity as opposed to what's happening in the sector now. So I think that's an important caveat to the, the economic piece. For me, I think, the real highlight is just the super power that we have around the the cultural aspect of, the screen content that we make. Was there anything that actually surprised you? Probably that piece. I'm not sure that there's anything that's startlingly surprising. And and the research as a whole, I think the, the, the importance, I think the, the reasonation from international audiences about Māori culture and, and that being imbued in our screen content, I thought, was a really, really great, really useful thing for us to have, if I'm honest. And coming back to that point about, thank you. The idea behind this research is that it is used to perhaps inform policy, you know, assist in conversations that need to be had around you know. I mean, it is very helpful for us. at Spada you know, with our government advocacy and, you know, things like I was talking about this morning about advocating for changes to the domestic rebate and all of those kinds of things any information like this is very helpful. Is there anything that the agencies - NZ On Air and the others I know you've spoken to Annie And Larry, is there anything that you might do differently or do more of because of what you say, the findings? I'm sure there will be, I think there's one. There’s one really Key finding that came out of the research, which won't come as a surprise to a number of you that have been in the industry for a while, which is a lack of really good quality employment data. So Stats New Zealand used to do a survey annually that, was specific to the screen industry, and they stopped doing that in about I want to say 2015. And that's, that's actually made it a lot more difficult to pull a lot of this information out for the economic modeling. And I think, the three agency CEOs have actually got together and said, that's a massive missed opportunity. Tayla mentioned before the Everyone Project Aotearoa, which is something that's going to be rolling out quite soon. That'll give us some granular information about the people that are involved in the sector. But stats was really that that macroeconomic what are people earning? What's the size and scale of the industry? I think we definitely need to fix that. Yeah, I agree, I can't remember the year that we lost that data, but it has made quite an impact. You really do need to know that kind of information. You saw very strongly in the, results, the impact since we had the change where you could use the domestic screen production rebate with NZ On Air funding. I mean, obviously it's had a really positive impact, but I'm also aware that it's still super, super hard for producers getting those productions together, getting those deals together, getting the global investment. ET cetera. You know, it's been a bit of a learning curve for all of us. Opening that up, how would you say it is going at the moment, and where are we heading with, getting that to work as as best it can. Really? Yeah, it's I mean, I've said this a few times. It's been a game changer for us on many levels because it has meant, we're able to support more productions, more ambitious productions. Budgets are increasing, quality is is fantastic, but it's hard. We know we really know how hard it is. And to find that international money. We just saw the co-production kind of conversation up here before. I think it's another thing that Mahi Tahi will bring us. So we've, we've always been fairly constrained because our legislation is so narrow and that's NZ on Air. Our legislation is about delivery of local content to local audiences. The Film Commission’s remit's broader, but under Mahi Tahi we can come together and say, well look, let's let's take a broader remit. We have an Amplifier Strategy, which is now government policy effectively, which we required to to take account of that, that says, how do we help? How do we kind of lean in to, producers finding, you know, I think one of the, one of the words that was said in the panel before is relationships. Right? So how do we help grow relationships with those offshore production companies or financiers or, or whoever else, might assist in continuing to grow? You know, the multi-party kind of international productions that we want to see. I mean, it's a critical area of our work at the moment. I've got a couple more questions for Cam, but, I think we probably do have time if there's a couple of people in the crowd who've got absolutely burning questions. Karen McKenzie has a burning question. I'm. Oh, there's a microphone coming your way. Don't ask me about macroeconomics. No, I. Won't, was I reading the income graph. Correctly? Are we looking at like $40/50/60,000? The average for most screen. Workers in the country? How does that compare? Am I right with that? It looks unbelievably low, doesn't it? When you look at that graph, you go, how does that make sense? And I think that that those are the things we probably I mean, that is probably a macroeconomic question that I don't know the answer to because it doesn't I mean, I'm assuming that that must include part time people or whatever else because they're, you know, an average of sort of 40,000 below the living wage. Right? I mean, we do know that the industry is, deals with a lot of kind of part time fluctuating work, to be fair. So, that, that could be true. I think that's probably something that we would need to look into a little bit more. It's, it's funnily enough, I wrote it down myself when I saw that that graph up there just stands out. It's a really good question, Karen, and I think it needs a little bit more drilling down into that one, doesn't it? Anything else that anyone's desperate to know? Here we go, Polly. I'd love. To hear a bit more about what the domestic SPR settings are that you're. That you're lobbying. Oh, well, that’s a me question. And who you're consulting. With to decide what you're lobbying for. Mostly just our own industry. And I'm very, very welcome, very open to hearing. If anyone wants to email me with any suggestions or Sandy, it'll generally be things around getting the, above the lines similar to what they just did with the international, things around, budget thresholds, market attachent amounts and possibly, getting international format that are very New Zealand-ised to be eligible, which they have not historically been. That's very broad based. If you've got more specifics that you'd like us to think about, please send them to us, because we are just getting there all together. So. What is that look like? Is it is it something you submit to the paper to the government? So you know how what? We've kind of already done those bits. The next bit really is just to sit down with the Minister and the Ministry team, and it really, really go through the nuts and bolts of it. And(lost audio....) that created that. But I, I have to I was just wondering who to date has been part of that information gathering? I’ve mostly - Sandy and I have mostly worked on it with our own Board, but we have also had input from various other members. And as I say, if you've got more to add, add it. Thank you. That was my question. The questions are for him. Anything else? Yes, Tony. Shoot. For Cam - NZ ON Air’s role is their emphasis on co-production international etc. Where is the place for totally New Zealand funded production I think, without wanting to sound like I'm copping out, I think it's all about balance. Right? So we have, we have an act that, irrespective of the fact that we want to try and broaden our remit a little bit and encourage more ambition, because that's actually what we're being asked to deliver under Amplify and under the current kind of government settings. We still take very seriously the fact that we have section 36 C, which which talks about delivering content for specific audiences, and, you know, we are a cultural agency. So, we're not we're not looking for everything to come in with the rebate. That's the point, though, is that it has meant that our money can go further. And the problem we've had over, you know, various years is we just don't have enough money. And we're seeing more and more fantastic, applications coming in that we can't fund. So the rebate change has meant that we can spread our money a little bit, you know, a bit broader. But but the reality is, we also know that not everyone is going to be able to do that. Not not every producer is going to be able to come in and tight tie together a multi-party international financing plan. So we're looking to kind of find a balance. Probably take one more from the gang. I can't see who that is, but yes. So I'm a bit fixated on, the low income level for, screen workers. I'm circling back to that. I'm wondering, since there hasn't been data tracked since 2015, I'm wondering if there's an opportunity in future, Times that you pull data that you could do a call back to try and understand how many people have left the industry recently. Or since 2015, how many are solely receiving income from the screen sector, or are they, depending on other income sources, to survive or partners some other kind of revenue stream? I think it would be really great to get a very clear snapshot on that. Next to a lot of creatives are working free labor in order to get their projects up and running a lot more, a lot more part time, a lot more gig economy, and a lot of educational institutions, educating people in order to go into the screen sector where there really isn't a lot of opportunity. So I'm wondering if there's a way to capture some kind of data around that. Yeah. I mean, I think there definitely is. I mean, as I said, it's probably the one most glaring, absence from, from this work, to be honest, is that - Hello? Yeah. Sorry. You might not know this. So Profile of Creative Professionals is a piece of research that we've partnered with, Creative New Zealand on a couple of times, and we're doing it again early next year. So Profile of Creative Professionals. Last time it came out, which I'm trying to remember, how long ago was 2 to 3 years ago, did paint a Pretty poor picture of incomes in the sector. There were, and as Tayla’s The data that Tayla presented showed there were, you know, the the fixed, the, permanent employees, and they came through and the research as being reasonably well paid, but then they were all the gig economy workers who were, washing dishes in the evening as well, to sort of make ends meet or relying on a partner with a, with a regular income. So Profile of Creative Professionals gave us a much more detailed look at that. And we will get that again next year. And then we'll expect to be getting, a lot more rich data from the Everyone Project as that rolls out over the coming years. Thank you. And just to add to that, I, I mean, I'm not I can't speak on behalf of Annie and Larry, but I think when we did get together and realized that one of the things that was really, sort of somewhat compromising the data of what we want to be an ongoing every couple of year piece of macroeconomic sort of, summary. Is the is the lack of that Stats information. I think we need to sort that out. So if that means that we need to find some money between us to get that up and running again, we we I think we well, I mean, it doesn't make sense for us to be so compromised. Now, when you see the lovely James sitting over there, you know that you're very near the end of your session because that's the cue. But just one last question, Cam. And just in case anyone doesn't know what we're talking about when we talk about Mahi Tahi that's obviously the three funding agencies working together on things. What else is happening in the Mahi Tahi space? I've got a list here. So obviously the team were just talking about the Everyone Project. You've just seen a tangible example with, with this research. We have pulled together a fairly formal framework that has gone to, to our Board. I think it's gone to the Film Commission Board next week. Really very much in mind, a more formal agreement around how we are going to continue to work together, Amplify as a strategy, I think is kind of really expecting that of us. Our my Board is particularly keen. Speaking honestly, I think that the merger conversation that we were talking about sort of this time last year is off the table at the moment. But the view we have is let's do the positive bits of what a merger would have been without worrying about the negative ones. So how can we work together for, strategic funding initiatives, sector development. So we obviously all put in some money into the wonderful Activator Programme, which, is just, there's a few producers in the room here that have, engaged in that that is amazing. And we definitely want to see that continue. And we want to see more of that. We definitely see kind of workforce development opportunities that we're kind of all working on separately. So these kind of gaps and duplication that I think we can address by coming together and going, how how might we kind of put a call out to the industry that is a consolidated piece of thinking that says, how do we how do we support and develop below the line or grow writing talent or producers? I mean, we're all kind of using similar people. The list goes on. Devolved industry investment and initiatives run by guilds. So mental wellbeing I think so. Well, I mean, I think like, Kelly just was in the, in next store, That is relevant to all of us. So let's take a kind of consolidated view. Yeah. And there's one smaller organization that's very close to my heart, which is Greenlit, which is about greening the screen industry. And both NZ On Air and the Film Commission have helped with that. So that might be one we could have a cross-agency, you know, feeling on as well. It's all good. Thank you. Working together is good. Thank you. Hey, thanks. Thank you, thank you.